Comments on: Senator Clinton and the Iraq AUMF http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/ a citizen's journal by Thomas Nephew Thu, 17 May 2012 23:21:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: newsrackblog.com » Blog Archive » The purpose served http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-7400 newsrackblog.com » Blog Archive » The purpose served Tue, 11 May 2010 18:22:31 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-7400 [...] Senators famously had the chance to learn just how thin the WMD case was in the Iraq War, even if many didn’t choose to read the intelligence estimate involved — might the public have been [...] [...] Senators famously had the chance to learn just how thin the WMD case was in the Iraq War, even if many didn’t choose to read the intelligence estimate involved — might the public have been [...]

]]> By: Thomas Nephew http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-872 Thomas Nephew Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:13:48 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-872 Honestly? OK: halfway between "mild negative" and "Don't know", times a mid sized dollop of "rarely give him much thought." I used to be more mad at him and his supporters for 2000 than I am now. Mainly, of course, it was his perfect right to run whether that was "helpful" in a larger sense or not; Gore could have run harder left and snapped up some of those voters (though at some unknown cost of other voters put off by that). I now figure his year 2000 voters would mainly just not have voted if he'd not been in the race. (Though my own experience of eventually picking Obama when Edwards withdrew tells me some people may have switched to Gore.) His manner is a little off-putting to me, but that may be residual bias. To me, he's like Kucinich: lots of perfect positions (I'm willing to assume), but it's unclear to me whether he could make anything happen -- or would want to if it wasn't perfect. I think he ought to run and win for Senate or governor or congressman somewhere, see how that goes. I might even contribute to that. Nevertheless, I'm a lesser-evil voter in the upcoming presidential election, and will do what I can to help Obama or even Hillary beat McCain. Since you prompt me, I'll have a look at what Nader's saying he's for -- and how he imagines he'd do it. Honestly? OK: halfway between “mild negative” and “Don’t know”, times a mid sized dollop of “rarely give him much thought.”
I used to be more mad at him and his supporters for 2000 than I am now. Mainly, of course, it was his perfect right to run whether that was “helpful” in a larger sense or not; Gore could have run harder left and snapped up some of those voters (though at some unknown cost of other voters put off by that). I now figure his year 2000 voters would mainly just not have voted if he’d not been in the race. (Though my own experience of eventually picking Obama when Edwards withdrew tells me some people may have switched to Gore.) His manner is a little off-putting to me, but that may be residual bias.
To me, he’s like Kucinich: lots of perfect positions (I’m willing to assume), but it’s unclear to me whether he could make anything happen — or would want to if it wasn’t perfect. I think he ought to run and win for Senate or governor or congressman somewhere, see how that goes. I might even contribute to that.
Nevertheless, I’m a lesser-evil voter in the upcoming presidential election, and will do what I can to help Obama or even Hillary beat McCain. Since you prompt me, I’ll have a look at what Nader’s saying he’s for — and how he imagines he’d do it.

]]> By: vote-nader http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-871 vote-nader Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:23:36 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-871 What is your opinion of Nader? What is your opinion of Nader?

]]> By: Thomas Nephew http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-870 Thomas Nephew Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:40:45 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-870 Thanks! I appreciate the sentiment. FWIW, I did crosspost this at "American Street", which gets about 10x the traffic this site does. Don't know quite how to "shop" something to a site I'm not all that familiar with and that seems to lean pro-Clinton; seems like it would come off as just being annoying. [return to "<a href="http://pages.prodigy.net/thomasn528/blog/2008_02_24_newsarcv.html#8576616709097189939">Senator Clinton and the Iraq AUMF vote</a>"] Thanks! I appreciate the sentiment. FWIW, I did crosspost this at “American Street”, which gets about 10x the traffic this site does. Don’t know quite how to “shop” something to a site I’m not all that familiar with and that seems to lean pro-Clinton; seems like it would come off as just being annoying.
[return to "Senator Clinton and the Iraq AUMF vote"]

]]> By: vote-nader http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-869 vote-nader Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:18:57 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-869 Bro, you have to get those ladies at shakesville to read this post. Bro, you have to get those ladies at shakesville to read this post.

]]> By: Nell http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-868 Nell Sat, 01 Mar 2008 18:45:21 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-868 WorldWideWeber, the Democratic pols with presidential ambitions put themselves in that excruciating position, by getting Tom Daschle to change his initial decision not to allow a vote on the war authorization before the elections. It was political idiocy as well as disastrous policy (<i>"We need to get Iraq out of the way so we can talk about our issues"</i>, 'our issues' being things like prescription drug benefits). WorldWideWeber, the Democratic pols with presidential ambitions put themselves in that excruciating position, by getting Tom Daschle to change his initial decision not to allow a vote on the war authorization before the elections.
It was political idiocy as well as disastrous policy (“We need to get Iraq out of the way so we can talk about our issues”, ‘our issues’ being things like prescription drug benefits).

]]> By: Thomas Nephew http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-867 Thomas Nephew Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:08:11 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-867 <i>Iraq may been the equivalent for Hillary of JFK's sudden education</i> That's where the ongoing "I'm tough enough" talk and the Syria and Iran examples come in -- for that matter, where that "it's 3am" ad comes in. What's that but a "you <i>know</i> I'll blow stuff up" message? <i>certain voted against it have my respect, continue to club Hillary about it don't</i> I'm not clubbing her. I'm saying she should have done better, and she should have learned from it. She didn't, and it seems to me she hasn't. <i>eye on the White House... Obama spared having to vote</i> It's not like it was 100-0 in the Senate. Many Senators voted against it. It seems likely to me he would have been among them. And re "eye on the White House", Hillary's White House bid would be a lock right now if she'd voted "no". More importantly, if Obama wins out, the kinds of pulls you talk about will be quite a bit more evenly matched by "what if this is a bad idea" ones. <i>wasn't exactly pleased with your views at the time, Thomas! ...still friends...</i> Well I'm not exactly pleased with them either! Glad we're still friends. But (a) we're not electing me, we're not electing a friend and (b) I don't hate Hillary, I'm just not voting for her in the primary. What I might have said better is that she's a roll of the dice, too, when it comes to that 3am call. In fact, I think she's more of one. Iraq may been the equivalent for Hillary of JFK’s sudden education
That’s where the ongoing “I’m tough enough” talk and the Syria and Iran examples come in — for that matter, where that “it’s 3am” ad comes in. What’s that but a “you know I’ll blow stuff up” message?
certain voted against it have my respect, continue to club Hillary about it don’t
I’m not clubbing her. I’m saying she should have done better, and she should have learned from it. She didn’t, and it seems to me she hasn’t.

eye on the White House… Obama spared having to vote
It’s not like it was 100-0 in the Senate. Many Senators voted against it. It seems likely to me he would have been among them. And re “eye on the White House”, Hillary’s White House bid would be a lock right now if she’d voted “no”. More importantly, if Obama wins out, the kinds of pulls you talk about will be quite a bit more evenly matched by “what if this is a bad idea” ones.

wasn’t exactly pleased with your views at the time, Thomas! …still friends…
Well I’m not exactly pleased with them either! Glad we’re still friends. But (a) we’re not electing me, we’re not electing a friend and (b) I don’t hate Hillary, I’m just not voting for her in the primary. What I might have said better is that she’s a roll of the dice, too, when it comes to that 3am call. In fact, I think she’s more of one.

]]> By: WorldWideWeber http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-866 WorldWideWeber Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:57:41 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-866 Barack Obama had the good fortune to not be in the US Senate when the AUMF was voted on. Anyone who is certain he would have voted against it are endowed with more native certainty than I. Those who feel "rather" certain he would have voted against it have my sympathy and respect. But those who continue to club Hillary Clinton about it do not. Our deluded president and his lying cabal are primarily responsible for the fact that we invaded Iraq--99% responsible, in my view (and yes, I've done the math). They cynically put the US Congress in an impossible position, and created an especially excruciating dilemma for any Democrat who had their eye on a White House run. ("You're running for president, and yet you voted against giving the president the tools he needs blah blah blah.") Kerry voted for it. Edwards voted for it. Biden voted for it. Clinton voted for it. And so on. Obama was spared having to vote. Don't get me wrong: I was plenty pissed at Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, et al. at the time. I could smell the crap in the Administration's arguments and trumped-up "intelligence." Why the hell couldn't they? But then, I wasn't exactly pleased with your views at the time, Thomas! And we're still friends, right? I think Iraq may have been the equivalent for Hillary of JFK's sudden education in foreign policy and domestic skulduggery after the Bay of Pigs. But I think the point is rapidly becoming moot as Obama continues to surge ... Barack Obama had the good fortune to not be in the US Senate when the AUMF was voted on. Anyone who is certain he would have voted against it are endowed with more native certainty than I. Those who feel “rather” certain he would have voted against it have my sympathy and respect. But those who continue to club Hillary Clinton about it do not. Our deluded president and his lying cabal are primarily responsible for the fact that we invaded Iraq–99% responsible, in my view (and yes, I’ve done the math). They cynically put the US Congress in an impossible position, and created an especially excruciating dilemma for any Democrat who had their eye on a White House run. (”You’re running for president, and yet you voted against giving the president the tools he needs blah blah blah.”) Kerry voted for it. Edwards voted for it. Biden voted for it. Clinton voted for it. And so on. Obama was spared having to vote.
Don’t get me wrong: I was plenty pissed at Kerry, Edwards, Clinton, et al. at the time. I could smell the crap in the Administration’s arguments and trumped-up “intelligence.” Why the hell couldn’t they? But then, I wasn’t exactly pleased with your views at the time, Thomas! And we’re still friends, right? I think Iraq may have been the equivalent for Hillary of JFK’s sudden education in foreign policy and domestic skulduggery after the Bay of Pigs. But I think the point is rapidly becoming moot as Obama continues to surge …

]]> By: John Callender http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-865 John Callender Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:02:31 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-865 Hm. And now it's working. I guess I did something wrong the first time. Never mind. :-) Hm. And now it’s working. I guess I did something wrong the first time. Never mind. :-)

]]> By: John Callender http://newsrackblog.com/2008/02/29/senator-clinton-and-the-iraq-aumf/#comment-864 John Callender Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:00:45 +0000 http://newsrackblog.com/wp/?p=2313#comment-864 Huh. I get "This video is no longer available" when I try to view the Code Pink meeting video. Huh. I get “This video is no longer available” when I try to view the Code Pink meeting video.

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